A lot of sentiment held by Christians today is centered around the desire for America to be a Christian nation. We long to see our faith more fully and freely expressed in public life. But sometimes I don’t think we go far enough with this. To what end do we want America to be a more Christian nation – for the salvation of those around us or for a safer environment to raise our own families? And if we could get everything we wanted, what would that be? Would it mean more people would become Christians? Would more people be saved? Would more people come to know Jesus?
What if living in a Christian nation and knowing Christ were two different things that didn’t have anything to do with each other, or even more problematic, what if they were counter productive? What if a more Christian nation meant a more diluted Christianity? Actually a strong case could be made historically for this (see the Holy Roman Empire). A more current illustration of this would be the fact that one is more likely to find a vital Christianity thriving on a secular college campus than in a Christian college or university. The more Christian the environment, the more assumptions are made about everybody’s Christianity, often resulting in apathy and disconnection when it comes to one’s personal faith.
It could be that a less Christian environment might foster a more vibrant Christian community. The early church and Christianity around the world show us over and over again that faith thrives amidst opposition.
I’m not suggesting we let America go to hell in a handbasket, but I am suggesting we think through just how much time, money and emotional energy we should put into trying to make or keep this country “Christian.” Jesus didn’t die for America; he died for you and me.
My suggestion: whatever attention we are putting into trying to save America, double that when it comes to seeking to love and save those who are lost. I’m not even sure what a Christian America is or would look like, but I do know what a Christian is, and a real Christian will be a real Christian anywhere.
John Fischer The Catch 
Hell in a hand-basket sounds just like my dad! lol
We are and have always been a pluralistic country. It is true that at one time Christianity was a guiding factor for some of our (slave owning) forefathers. (twelve of our presidents owned slaves and eight of them owned slaves while serving as president)
It was hardly a “Christian nation” that bullied their was across this land killing Indians and buffalo to take what they wanted.
We have pretended that God was on our side as if we were some kind of promise land.
Since the “Moral Majority” main stream Christianity has fallen to political rhetoric, mega church mentality, throw a burger to a hungry man and tell him God want to prosper him. We’re “Kings Kids” and God wants us all rich.
Mother Teresa never eliminated poverty, hunger or orphaned children. She invested in peoples lives regardless of the outcome, without judgment and without joining a tea party. She didn’t demand her rights, she served others, the least of those among us because she saw them as Christ and by serving them she washed his very feet.
The conflict of good and evil is classic Christianity but the evil we conquer is within each of us and the victory comes by serving others.
Christians can’t even get along why would anyone think they could run a country?
What is a “mega church mentality”?
I appreciate the thoughts in here. Brother Yun has responded to people who say they will pray for the persecution of Christians in China to end in this way. (Paraphrased) “Please do not pray that prayer. When the persecution of Christians in China ends, we will become like the North American Christians, complacent with a diluted faith.”
I would like to say that although America was founded on Christian principles, I do not believe it was EVER intended that it be a Christian nation. In fact we are guaranteed freedom to whatever faith we choose instead of one that is imposed on us through governmental laws. America should NOT be a Christian nation but the American Christians should be providing an example to all others by the way they live their lives so that others wonder what it is about them and want to join them.
John, you correctly promote the propogation of the Christian gospel as the first priority of Christ followers. The “gospel”, the “good news” is the introduction of the “kingdom of heaven” into the “kingdoms of this world”. God’s kingdom promises “peace on earth and goodwill toward men” because the value system of his kingdom is that kind of a foundation. I believe that there is merit in extolling the values of the Christian lifestyle in stark contrast to the lifestyles of “American idols” who are paraded and promoted by the army of non-Christian opinion makers.
At the same time it is clear that there is no “Christian America” if the people are not genuinely Christian. So I agree with you that the call to follow Jesus is an elementary movement if the USA is to be peopled by Christians.
There is no need in my opinion to segregate the gospel from public action. If that had been the case through Christian history the Western world of today would look more like the Muslim middle east.
There is no Christian lifestyle. Not even in a single denomination.
We all live our lives as individuals. The question then becomes, which “Christian” group should we follow? Catholic? Baptist? The ones usually demanding a Christian nation are from the more fundamentalist group of Christians. Might just as well give the country to the Muslims.
Christian’s are Jesus’ followers. Their eyes are on Jesus and following his teachings and example. They don’t follow groups, whether Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Jehovah Witness, Seventh-day Adventist, Mormon, or any other denomination. Each with a set of rules and regulations that distinguish it from the others has nothing to do with the accurate definition of Christianity. As for fundamentalist, what is the accurate definition of “fundamentalist”? Are these the people who have not diluted the New Testament to be more palatable to people who outrank their Creator and want things to go their way? Pastor John Stott put it so well: “The essence of salvation is God substituting himself for man. The essence of sin is man substituting himself for God.”
What wonderful sentiments here! At a key time in my life — while I was still working in radio and TV — I got a job as a talk-show producer at a Christian TV station, thinking that was where I was supposed to be and the next step would be an on-air gig as a host. But it was clear the Lord had other ideas: I didn’t stay in that job long and wound up back in mainstream media. And as I drove away from the Christian station for the last time, the Lord said, “it is more important to be a Christian in broadcasting than in Christian broadcasting”. Back at a mainstream station, I was able to observe more, interact with people I never would have run into otherwise, and become, as you would say, John, a “caffeinated Christian.” For all the rhetoric about America — and Canada, too — being founded as Christian nations, the real question is, is it a nation of Christians? And there actually is a “Christian lifestyle”: it’s whatever lifestyle reflects what Jesus told us to do — love God above all else, love others ahead of yourself; and spread the Gospel. He didn’t tell us to judge others, rail against sin or even to kick over the money-changers’ tables in the Temple. That’s His job, the job He did give us is quite enough, thank you.
John, Something you said that Jesus died for you and me, but the problem I see is our limited definition of you by to many American Christians. If the words of Jesus are true, I believe they are, that He spoke about loving those who persecute us than we must look at people who profess out faiths whether Jewish, Muslim, Buddha, Hindu, etc that Jesus died for them. How about the words about Jesus when He said that He has other sheep that are not in this pasture-referring to the Jewish pasture? I believe that America is a religious nation, but the religion has been primarily Christian, but not now. The constitution says freedom of religion which is not just Christianity or even one persons or groups definition of Christianity. If the words in Jeremiah are true, which I believe are, than just as the Israelites failed to take care of the poor as The Torah says so and Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and took the wealthiest in exile, but left the poor to tend the farms and livestock what does this tell us especially with the non-violent revolution in Egypt where the majority of Egyptians live on two dollars a day or less. How about the unemployment rate continue to hold steady while long term unemployment not being recorded? What was the Bob Dylan Song that talked about the stadiums of the damned? What idols does America have that is causing us not to live out God’s Grace, Love, Mercy, and Holiness?
You are on a roll, John and I’m on it with you!
I think a good comparison of what a Christian America looks like vs a non-Christian America would be the settling of the West. The Eastern US was a Christian nation, for all practical purposes – morally, religiously and culturally. Most everyone living in the East had come to America or were direct descendants of those who had come to America for religious freedom. But the West was another story: it was a mishmash of French trappers, Indians, Mexicans, gold-hunters, cowboys, renegades, outlaws, Chinese and Irish railroad workers, etc. Most were out there for NON-religous purposes. Into that hodgepodge of humanity came the settlers: people who had lived amongst the Christian East who were now going to live amongst the NON-Christian West. The result? They tamed the West, brought civilization and culture to it, and planted their Christian values there. America has seen both sides of the coin. The question is, do we want to go back to the Wild West and let IT influence US the way the Christian East once influenced it; or, do we want to take our nation to the next great place?
I say, the next great place. But what does that look like? It doesn’t look like a pagan America, nor does it look like a “Christian” America. If a pagan America is “raw material,” and if a Christian America is a “finished work,” then what we need is an America that has reinvented itself: we need a REVIVED America. We need revival that, as Steve Brown puts it, is greater than the Great Awakening. And we need it now. That is not going to happen by “Christianizing” America; nor is it going to happen by turning America into another Wild West. It is only going to happen by Christians all across America being filled with the Holy Spirit and going where the Spirit leads: as the disciples did in the book of Acts, as the pilgrims did in the 1500s, and as the settlers did in the 1800s.
“Go, stand and speak in the Temple all the words of this life,” whatever your field, wherever you are. For some that may mean moving to China; for others, building a website, starting an after school program, working with widows and orphans, ministering to prisoners, getting involved in a justice ministry – the opportunities are endless, but so is the need. But whatever you do, get out of your comfort zone. Go do something that you never thought you could do, that you never thought possible, because that is probably the best place to find the Spirit.
This is a great discussion! I have been wrestling with this for the last 10 years or so. I have to admit, my own tendency is to retreat into a safe “christian” bubble and pull everyone I love in with me. God has made it very clear that’s not where He wants me. I was at an event involving teenagers recently and as I looked around at the truly awful things that were going on, I could feel my heart just breaking. I wanted to jump up and yell, “Stop! This is wrong!”, but I held my tongue. Instead God spoke to me and said “You are not fighting WITH them, you are fighting FOR them.” So I will fight, not in the streets but in my prayer closet, for the hearts and minds of this generation to be turned to God. If that happens, I believe it WILL have an impact on our culture, but that will be the outcome of changed hearts, not the goal. By prayer closet I do not mean I hide out. I am very actively involved in the lives of young people, but the main work is done in private, on my knees before God.
Should the US be a “Christian” nation? Should the US become a theocracy like Iran? Shall we bring back the Inquisition? The US was settled by people fleeing the religious intolerance in Europe. Religious tolerance was so important to the founding fathers that it was included in the first amendment to the constitution. We should be asking ourselves about our individual relationship with God, rather than judging others.
Amen to this concept and one that is lost on “religious” people. It seems to me that one’s AFFILIATION with a religious organization is not a means to spiritual growth but a golden calf. Allegiance to an idol is easy. A Christian’s life is counter to his own human nature and so a full time life style….and desired only through the love he has for his Lord and Master that can only come from knowing God. A personal relationship with Jesus defines a Christian. Now how can that be adapted to a Christian nation? Human decency needed to rule a society does not require a Christian’s belief system. A theocracy would counter Christianity and likely rule in opposition to any other label, as the Buddhist government of Sri Lanka .
You bring up a great point and it is safe to say we are obviously not a Christian Nation because Christians are the type of people that take their Bibles, that our God in heaven authored the very Creator of the universe, with us to the voting booth. Since the elections have resulted so poorly, in godless men being elected I mean, for the last 100 years I would say it is safe to say that either Christians do not vote or they come to the booth as pharisees and not bible believing voters.
You see we have stopped being a Christian Nation because our view of government has become shaped by secular culture. Christians are continually fooled into a number of pagan arguments that the origin of government is in its people and that the power of the government should also be limited by those people. The government in this view also provides several functions to these people in the form of beneficial services. NOTHING CAN BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! The origin of government is God Almighty! The function of government is ONLY to protect good people from evil men! The power of the government is only given to its magistrates to execute justice, to collect a head tax (Exodus 30:12-16), and is a minister from God for your good.
Consider carefully Romans 13 on the subject of government. I pray that revival will once again come to America and we will see elected officials who are God fearing men. Obama to Clinton, Bush to Bush, Reagan to Kennedy- none of these men feared the LORD. What does this say about the “Christian” voters?
Right is Right, Realistic is Wrong in the voting booth. http://usmc2119133.wordpress.com/2010/11/03/right-is-right-realistic-is-wrong/
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It was nice to see this topic addressed by John + the replies. I would strongly suggest everyone read the book “Myth of a Christian Nation” by (Rev.) Greg Boyd. He addresses this whole topic in a well-researched detailed matter – that the US is Not a Christian nation, wasn’t intended to be, and shouldn’t be intended to be. WE should focus on being Christian to everyone – growing the nation of God + loving everyone as Jesus did…that is what is most important.