I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-13)
These are indeed harsh words but they reveal a kind of reversal that has taken place in the last few decades in the church. Notice who Paul is hard on here — those inside the church. You rarely see this kind of strict judgment taking place inside the church today. It’s much more popular to spot the immorality of those outside than those inside, and yet the apostle Paul is asking us to do the opposite. Be hard on ourselves and easy on them.
Why would you be surprised when unbelievers are immoral, greedy, swindlers, idolaters and drunkards? Why would you expect anything else? And isn’t it interesting that Paul assumes we will be associating with people like this if we are in the world? Otherwise “you would have to leave this world.” It’s almost comical. And what is our attitude supposed to be towards all this immorality, idolatry and drunkenness? Non-judgment. Not our business. Leave that to the Lord. If you’re itching to judge, judge yourselves; don’t judge the world, because you’re no different.
Over the last 30 years, Christians have gained the reputation of being concerned about everyone’s morality but their own. If we were all worked up over our own sin and on our knees before the Lord instead of marching and boycotting everyone else’s, it would have been a lot better for the gospel. What went on was a violation of this instruction by Paul to be hard on insiders, not outsiders.
So what are we to do? Embrace your own sin, confess it, bring it before the Lord and other believers to be forgiven, cleansed and made whole, and then turn and embrace the sinners around you in the same way. There is and never was a moral majority because there is none righteous, no not one. We are all shut up in unrighteousness so that God’s grace can be given to us all. We are all on the same level. We are all sinners so we can all be saved. Sounds like Good News to me.
John Fischer The Catch 
Great message. It seems to me that part of the reputation we have gained as Christians for being concerned about everyone elses morality but our own revolves around the “fire and brimstone” approach of haranguing nonbelievers about their need for repentance and turning from “sin”. To a nonbeliever even using the “Roman Road” approach to witnessing can sound pretty condemning and judgmental. One of the ways I personally deal with this is to emphasize, first, that God created us. We are not accidents. God knew us before we were born. As a person, our Creator, He created us to be in relationship with him, because he loves His creation (us). Everyone I know wants to “know” this Creator, the one who knows us intimately, inside and out. And I personally can’t think of a better place to be than to be with my Creator and to trust Him. So why don’t we have this relationship? Sin. Sin separates us from God…and it is sin to know what you ought to do and then not do it. But guess what, there’s some Great News….for all of us who have broken God’s laws and therefore committed sin, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. Do you know my Creator?
A lot more to swallow than just my lunch time turkey sandwich!
This is really good stuff. The Catch and not so much my lunch I mean.
I have experienced church and what seems to be blatant acts of sin and it drove me away.
When I tried to talk about it, I was treated as invisible or as if what I was saying must surely never have happened. Today’s Catch tells me it DOES happen. My dilemma is how do I handle it bearing in mind my own unrighteousness and be turned away and shunned and not leave? I am assuming I am doing something wrong. I don’t know if this is the place to ask this question. Today’s Catch has helped me to look deeper into this matter. Thank you for that.
Keep up the good work John.
Amen to this Pastor John: “We are all sinners so we can all be saved. Sounds like Good News to me.” and i’ll too ‘say’ sounds like great news to me! 🙂
Thank you for this message! So many ostensibly Christian organizations dedicate themselves to trying to make the world be more moral. Sure, I want the world to be safer for my kids, and not expose them to certain things at a tender age, but how to go about it? Tough line to draw! I stand against certain things as a person or as a parent, but you are right – we should not stand against the world as Christians.
But also hoping that soon this subject will lead to your sharing your views on how to handle the harsh words of “not even eating with such a person” when it is a brother who is experiencing a time within certain sins, yet we would also want to somehow try to lovingly helping them back? It’s quite a dilemma to me!
Thank you for being thought-provoking (and, we hope, prayer-provoking and even change-provoking!). Blessings on ya.
Much agreed. With a couple of additional thoughts.
I have a small business and I do business with both believers and unbelievers. Interestingly enough, two people that have swindled me are people who “go to church” and have a Bible on their desk. And so I trusted them to be honest and trustworthy. Unfortunately, I should have also picked up on their problem with idolatry; both of those guys love their status-symbol cars and other status-symbol things. I find it interesting how the swindling and idolatry sometimes go together. And so naturally, I want to respond, but Paul has my response in the next chapter. “1 Cor 6:7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? ”
But a second point of balance. Sometimes, people within the church (the body of Christ) get too picky with each other. We can gripe and complain about a speck in someone else’s eye without first removing the log from our own eye.
Excuse me now, I’ve got something in my eye.
Excellent point John. I appreciate your wisdom & insights. I will have to digest this Bible verse. I am guilty.
Hey John, i have been on board with you for years and i do appreciate all you do. i can not think of a time when i have disagreed with you. and this is not leading up to…. until now. : ) i have just found myself in this situation mentioned here many times. i have close friends and even some relatives who i truly believe to be trusting in Jesus and loving Him. however, they are also living a gay lifestyle. just by the above fact that i said i have been on board with you for years, i hope you know that would mean i am not the judgmental type. in fact, i constantly remind myself and truly believe this verse applies to me….
This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them all.
1 Timothy 1:15 NLT
so i am certainly not placing myself ”above” them, but i continue to be uncertain how to handle such things. i have had discussions with some i have mentioned here in the most gentle and humble way i knew how, but it only ever seemed to cause distention. so i simply asked what little i felt i could and just moved on. as a worship leader and solo artist, i have the opportunity to speak to various gatherings of people. i have said in public many times that i believe truly judging someone is when we say something like, ”Well that person says they are a Christian, but look at that there.” we are then taking the place of God and basically saying we know that person’s heart. of course we know that is God’s gig, not ours. but, if we can identify something as sin according to The Bible, it is not judging to point it out. of course i stress over and over again, it must be done in love. we as a body of believers certainly do not do a great job at that. but we are called to take some action as Christians like this article pointed out. and you are pretty cool John, but you just didn’t say it. : ) you used scripture to back it up.
again, we are talking about people who identify themselves as Bible believing Christians. and just for clarification, i do not believe living a gay lifestyle is the ”worst sin,” ever. as i stated earlier, I am the worst sinner. however, The Bible does seem clear that living that type of lifestyle is sin. much like a man and woman living together without being married. there have been plenty of times in my life that people could have looked at me and said they totally didn’t understand how i could call myself a Christian and do the things i did, or do, for that matter. of course we all continue to sin, but again, i am torn as to what to do as a Christian when i see other Christians blatantly living a life against what seems clear in His Word. and even making some justification for it.
i hope anyone reading this notes that i was careful with my wording of living a gay lifestyle, as opposed to, being gay. i will say, i do not know if some are born feeling that way, or if they choose. but even if one can be born that way, it would not get us ”off the hook,” to live however we wanted. i personally feel i was born with an attraction to many females, but to live my life having a physical relationship with as many of them as i can would be sin. or if one is born with a ”criminal mind,” they can not go out and steal and kill without it being sin. and by the way, who is not born with ”criminal mind?” we are all born into sin ever since Adam and Eve messed things up, but we still can not live out our lives just doing whatever we want because we were born that way.
i know this is way longer than most comments, but it is something that has troubled me for years. so i just wanted to throw some of this stuff across you since i hold you in such high regard. hey, maybe some other people will have something to say about this as well. it is just hard for me to believe that i should not have anything to do with those people in my life and yet we can all read….
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
thanks for all you do John.
There is no such thing as a “gay lifestyle” Being gay is what someone is not what they do.
The bible is not a book on human sexuality, I suggest reading medical studies.
Either traditional interpretation in scripture concerning homosexuality is wrong, or the bible is a book of superstition and not worth building your life around.
There are gay Christians all around you. It is not a sin to be what God created.
Of course there is no point in this discussion because you feel safe in you condemnation of gay people and I am repulsed by it. It is condemnation to pretend same sex attraction is anything other than a part of human sexuality.
I found the Catch because of this very issue. A close friend came out and I, along with his Family chose to support him.
I was removed from the church and many things have happened since then.
Putting a gay person in the same category as an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler is disgusting.
Suggested reading:
http://www.soulforce.org/resources/what-science-says-and-doesnt-say-about-homosexuality/
http://www.soulforce.org/resources/what-the-bible-says-and-doesnt-say-about-homosexuality/
We have one responsibility, love others.
Tim,
I don’t have the time right now to address all your concerns (I will) but I must say that I never even had a thought about gays when I wrote this article nor was I trying to condemn anyone. I thought I was saying the opposite. Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. I will have to be more careful.
Your condemnation is palpable. I have a question and it is sincere if you care to gain support for your viewpoint.
My question is this: What principle or guidelines do you follow for your life? Do you feel you should be able to live and let live or just what guidelines do you offer for those that you would like to have “understand” your position?
If there are no boundaries or guidelines for you, then there will surely be chaos and anarchy…only the strong and dominant will persist. But if you say love is God, then you have created your own idol and are ensnared in its not too subtle grasp. You seem to have a whole new grid of truth to overlay the Bible or for that matter any other viewpoint that varies from your position. In that science nor nature sustains your position, how do you explain your extraordinary position? Your faith in your version of the truth would seem far more challenging than what the Bible exspouses and the laws of nature apparently support.
I happen to believe that homosexuality is an action but those that participate in that action are creations of God. It’s the actions that make no sense and even your science you alluded to supports that principle. I have no judgment for those ensnared in murder, adultery, homosexuality, and all of the other sins that you might list. However, my God requires certain guidelines and truths be acknowledged and then His love can be set free. David was an adulterer. murderer, liar, and more, yet God saw his acknowledgment of his rebellion in the face of God’s law and extended David His mercy and blessings.
I do not judge you, but there is a set of guidelines that God has given us to live our life by. Read the Bible and study it and God will show you what I say is true….and the truth will set you free.
While I enjoy the dialogues and challenges of exchanges (similar to above), sometimes we need to not rationalize or justify or say anything and just, “Shut it!”,…
then seriously pray along with the tax collector: ‘God, be merciful to me A SINNER!’
Period.
When I look at Romans 7, I see it saying than keeping God’s law was the criterion by which righteousness was measured in the Old Testament times (Deut 6:1-3). But the law had only succeeded in stimulating people to greater sin. Man’s sinful nature has not been changed by the law.
Paul gives his own personal testimony to illustrate the stubbornness of man’s sinful nature. In his own strength, he was unable to overcome the sins of the flesh. The harder he tried to keep the law, the lower his tendency to sin dragged him down.
But in Romans 8 Paul points out that believers who have found new life in Christ have a different story to tell. The Holy Spirit energizes them, they are not victimized by sin and death. Only when we insist on putting our own grid of truth over the truth clearly provided by the Holy Spirit that indwells us all do we find chaos and confusion.
Total commitment to the Lord leads believers to have a new outlook on life. Resisting the temptations of the world, we make doing God’s will our main concern. Love towards others, particularly fellow church members, gives evidence of our new life in Christ. Christian love is such a powerful force that it enables us to overcome evil with good.
In Romans 13 Paul summed it up with “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself” (vs. 9).
Finally, in Romans 14 Paul states that believers should live in harmony with one another; we are not to be judgmental.